Warning: what follows will upset some, disappoint others, but I will receive and consider all comments and/or criticisms that are worded politely and you show me scripture to back up your point of view.
Before we get into it lets establish a few things:
To live a Godly life we have three main sources that guide us.
1. The written Word of God (first the principles of the New Testament or covenant then that of the Old Testament)
2. The voice of the Holy Spirit (which will not contradict #1)
3.The voice of our conscience (which is closely tied to #2)
The church often gets confused here and has it's own rules regulations and standards that it adopts (usually because it likes to establish black and white lines and also likes to be in control).
In the matter of "defining sins", if the Word does not directly identify a particular activity as a sin then as individuals we must earnestly seek out answers by using the #2 and #3 methods as stated above. Usually the voice of your conscience makes the correct call the first time, if we will honestly listen, (our conscience is faulty here when we overrule it with thoughts and excuses so that we can justify our actions and desires and that voice is silenced and we think "It is okay, my conscience is not condemning me"). The problem arises when, as an individual, my conscience condemns an activity for me and I set that as a standard for everyone else. Just so you know...I don't like sin...it has nasty side effects... It gets in the way of your relationship with God and other people (even to the point of destroying that relationship), your sins can kill you and others, they can have physical and mental effects and can destroy a society. (Am I perfect? Just ask my wife...on second thought she would not be a good judge on that matter because she would probably say "Yes!". Maybe my kids would give a more realistic opinion.) Okay before this gets too long lets get on to the "controversial bits".
I have recently listened to a couple of well meaning individuals, speaking in their messages, they isolated "smoking and/or drinking" as sins. Can you give me Word on it? The Bible is clear that being "drunk" is wrong... no problem there.
Look at John 2 where Jesus turns the water into wine.
John 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
When I hear someone using this they usually say its "grape juice" not alcohol. If verse 10 weren't there I would have no problem, but it is clear that there is something happening with the first "good wine" that later makes the "worse" passable. What is it? I am suggesting a dulling of the senses, as of this morning grape juice doesn't do this. The phrase used here is "well drunk" in other words "they have had a few" and now their taste buds are a little less discriminating. I think if you are honest you can conclude through this and other study that Jesus did make that "evil , devil drink" (by the way the word used for wine here is taken from another Greek word that is translated "fermented or intoxicated"). "Don't you know what drinking can do to you? It is abusing the body, which is the temple of the Holy Ghost!," some will say (after downing their third Twinkie and large Frosty). So is the sugar that is starting to deteriorate your body and giving it diabetes is not effecting your body? How about all the sugar substitutes that have all their side effects... maybe overeating... how about being a couch potato that destroys your body with inactivity? How about the overeating and stuffing ourselves at the buffet? If you have a problem with a substance (or buffet) you may want to seek God about staying away from it and if you have a problem with something you may want to get a deliverance from the controlling or habitual thing or activity, complete abstinence from the offending item may not be the answer, for example: food. It is the abuse and overuse of things that usually make these things wrong for us. Things like alcohol, smoking, sugars, fats, sex, talking (the Bible calls it gossip)... how about romance novels. When it comes down to it almost anything or activity on this planet taken to an extreme or excess is bad and wrong for us. Do you know that there are groups of Christians around the world that are appalled at the way that we in the western church use and abuse drugs? Yes, ladies and gentlemen... we call it... caffeine and we not only do it at home but often inside the church walls!
My rant here is not to condemn or condone the use of any substance or activity but rather say, look guys there is a lot of things to talk about in the scriptures and how we should live and conduct ourselves in this life, but why condemn people over something that is not even mentioned. Getting drunk...not right, having a beer or a glass or two of wine... go with your own conscience. How big is your God (and their God)? Is He not able to let them know and convict them if that is what He wants? Are you their god or is He? What needs to be stressed more than the dos and don'ts (and your opinion on things not mentioned) is how to have that dynamic relationship with the Father so that they can live a full and satisfying relationship with Him and be able to hear for themselves.
Again, I am more than willing to discuss this in person or on the web. Feel free.
Before we get into it lets establish a few things:
To live a Godly life we have three main sources that guide us.
1. The written Word of God (first the principles of the New Testament or covenant then that of the Old Testament)
2. The voice of the Holy Spirit (which will not contradict #1)
3.The voice of our conscience (which is closely tied to #2)
The church often gets confused here and has it's own rules regulations and standards that it adopts (usually because it likes to establish black and white lines and also likes to be in control).
In the matter of "defining sins", if the Word does not directly identify a particular activity as a sin then as individuals we must earnestly seek out answers by using the #2 and #3 methods as stated above. Usually the voice of your conscience makes the correct call the first time, if we will honestly listen, (our conscience is faulty here when we overrule it with thoughts and excuses so that we can justify our actions and desires and that voice is silenced and we think "It is okay, my conscience is not condemning me"). The problem arises when, as an individual, my conscience condemns an activity for me and I set that as a standard for everyone else. Just so you know...I don't like sin...it has nasty side effects... It gets in the way of your relationship with God and other people (even to the point of destroying that relationship), your sins can kill you and others, they can have physical and mental effects and can destroy a society. (Am I perfect? Just ask my wife...on second thought she would not be a good judge on that matter because she would probably say "Yes!". Maybe my kids would give a more realistic opinion.) Okay before this gets too long lets get on to the "controversial bits".
I have recently listened to a couple of well meaning individuals, speaking in their messages, they isolated "smoking and/or drinking" as sins. Can you give me Word on it? The Bible is clear that being "drunk" is wrong... no problem there.
Look at John 2 where Jesus turns the water into wine.
John 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
When I hear someone using this they usually say its "grape juice" not alcohol. If verse 10 weren't there I would have no problem, but it is clear that there is something happening with the first "good wine" that later makes the "worse" passable. What is it? I am suggesting a dulling of the senses, as of this morning grape juice doesn't do this. The phrase used here is "well drunk" in other words "they have had a few" and now their taste buds are a little less discriminating. I think if you are honest you can conclude through this and other study that Jesus did make that "evil , devil drink" (by the way the word used for wine here is taken from another Greek word that is translated "fermented or intoxicated"). "Don't you know what drinking can do to you? It is abusing the body, which is the temple of the Holy Ghost!," some will say (after downing their third Twinkie and large Frosty). So is the sugar that is starting to deteriorate your body and giving it diabetes is not effecting your body? How about all the sugar substitutes that have all their side effects... maybe overeating... how about being a couch potato that destroys your body with inactivity? How about the overeating and stuffing ourselves at the buffet? If you have a problem with a substance (or buffet) you may want to seek God about staying away from it and if you have a problem with something you may want to get a deliverance from the controlling or habitual thing or activity, complete abstinence from the offending item may not be the answer, for example: food. It is the abuse and overuse of things that usually make these things wrong for us. Things like alcohol, smoking, sugars, fats, sex, talking (the Bible calls it gossip)... how about romance novels. When it comes down to it almost anything or activity on this planet taken to an extreme or excess is bad and wrong for us. Do you know that there are groups of Christians around the world that are appalled at the way that we in the western church use and abuse drugs? Yes, ladies and gentlemen... we call it... caffeine and we not only do it at home but often inside the church walls!
My rant here is not to condemn or condone the use of any substance or activity but rather say, look guys there is a lot of things to talk about in the scriptures and how we should live and conduct ourselves in this life, but why condemn people over something that is not even mentioned. Getting drunk...not right, having a beer or a glass or two of wine... go with your own conscience. How big is your God (and their God)? Is He not able to let them know and convict them if that is what He wants? Are you their god or is He? What needs to be stressed more than the dos and don'ts (and your opinion on things not mentioned) is how to have that dynamic relationship with the Father so that they can live a full and satisfying relationship with Him and be able to hear for themselves.
Again, I am more than willing to discuss this in person or on the web. Feel free.
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